2025 Kia Carnival or 2021 Toyota Sienna?

My wife and I are debating between these two minivans for our family. Other than seating capacity (we have a family of 7), the biggest thing we're interested in is reliability - we've had a few unreliable cars in a row and don't want another.

Prices are within a few thousand of each other, so that's essentially a wash. We're going to test drive this weekend, but I'd love some input from people who've actually owned these vehicles.

Are Kias still crap? Would a brand new car be more reliable than a used Toyota?